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Welcome to Jersey Justice, a civil law podcast that shares

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practical tips and stories about personal and workplace injuries.

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Joined two of the brightest New Jersey injury attorneys, Gerald Clark

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and Mark Morris of Clark Law Firm.

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As they take you behind the scenes of.

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Justice and civil law.

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But first, a quick disclaimer.

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The information shared on this podcast is for general information purposes only.

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Nothing on this site should be taken as legal advice for any

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individual case or situation.

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This information is not intended to create and does not constitute

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an attorney-client relationship.

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All right everyone.

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Welcome back to Jersey Justice, and today we're gonna continue the

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conversation on expert witnesses.

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And we're gonna dive in.

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We're gonna start the conversation off with Jerry and he's actually

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going to be sharing some information about a particular case.

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Thanks, dimple.

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Yeah, we've been talking about experts.

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And I remember in, I think it was the last episode, I said I would give like

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kind of an example of a case and how it actually, you know, translates to

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selecting experts and how experts play into proving a case and everything.

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So I'm gonna, I'm gonna see if I could share my screen here.

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What I'd like to do is I kind of want to talk about a case that we had.

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It was a trial that we did in Middle sixth County, New Jersey.

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Mark and I did it together and.

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Just to give people an idea about how experts can impact the

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case about selecting experts and how they fall into everything.

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So the case was called Silva Verse, Jacobs Engineering, and

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there was some other defendants.

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And basically the story of the case is that Silva was a worker

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who was resurfacing the turnpike.

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He was working on a turnpike resurfacing job in near Hackensack, New Jersey.

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And he had gotten backed up on by this truck, and the truck was driven

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by his boss on the job that day.

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And what happens is when you're working on the turnpike, the

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trucks have to go forward and then they have to back up backwards.

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They can't do a U-turn because then they would be shining the

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light into the oncoming traffic.

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So he gets backed up on by the truck and we, he came to us and we looked at

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the case and we consulted with experts.

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And the experts say that the safety rules require the back, the

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truck to have a backup alarm, and also preferably a backup camera.

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And the rules also say that the company in charge of the job,

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you know, the contractor, the engineering firm that's hiring.

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The people on the job and that can set the rules for the job and

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is supposed to enforce the safety rules is supposed to require this.

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And so the big defense in the case by the company that was running the job

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is that that truck did not need to have a backup alarm or backup camera on it.

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And it's funny in these cases because when you have these defense experts

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that get up and testify and often say the most ridiculous things, they're

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never advocating for like a safer world.

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Everything is okay as it is.

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They're never advocating for more safety.

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They're basically always advocating for less safety.

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So for example, and this is a perfect example of it.

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This card did not need a backup alarm.

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That's what the case was about.

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And under osha OSHA's the safety law for workers, OSHA requires backup

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alarms on work trucks if there's an obstructed view out the back.

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So the defense also hired this other expert.

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He's works almost exclusively for defendants and insurance companies.

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And he testified that there's no obstructed view at his deposition.

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And what's funny about this, like, so the obstructive view means the driver,

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his view looking out back is obstructed.

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And if it's obstructed, there should be a backup alarm on the

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truck to warn people behind it.

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And also, as I said, preferably a backup camera.

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Remember I said, these defense experts, because they're being paid

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by the insurance company, will often say the most ridiculous things.

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So this expert said there's no obstructed view, you know, and

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we circled all the obstructions.

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So if you're sitting in there as the driver, this is a wheel.

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You can't see out the back.

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Now, an obstructive view doesn't mean you can't see anything out the back.

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It just means your, your view is blocked by, by anything.

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And he testified nothing's blocking his view, despite there being a tire

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there and despite there being work tools and these toolboxes on the

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side are clearly blocking the view.

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And you'll, there's reports in the case where they said, The reason he ran

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over the worker is because his view was obstructed, you know, and here's kind of

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the dash cam from the scene, and this is a report on the case by one of the companies

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on the job that said the immediate cause of what happened is equipment.

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Environment, and it said there was an operational light tower, 50 yards

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facing North was making difficult to see behind him, and there was light

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shining in the mirrors as he backed up making difficult to see behind.

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And it also said the vehicle contains toolboxes on either side, which may

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have added additional blind spots and.

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It also said the vehicle was not equipped with an audible rev reverse alarm, which

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may have given the worker an advanced warning the vehicle was approaching.

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So despite all this, the defense expert says there's no obstruction

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and a backup alarm wasn't needed.

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And then at the, in the opening statement for the lawyer hearing, Why?

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Why would the defense expert say that?

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I mean, cuz I know our audience is wondering.

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And also for the audience, if you're listening to the audio

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right now, we will link this video so you can watch it on YouTube.

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Go ahead.

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Yeah.

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Why would they say that?

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Well, they would say that because they're hoping the jury believes

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it, and then the company that didn't manage safety on the job.

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And more importantly, it's insurance company.

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Doesn't have to pay out the claim.

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And, and so this worker who's like severely injured, doesn't get a recovery.

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And the worker wasn't doing anything wrong other than resurfacing the turnpike.

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So we don't have potholes to drive over and supporting his family in the process.

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So that's why they would say that we believe.

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And then in the opening statement for the, lawyer, for

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the defendant running the job.

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They said, you're gonna hear from this expert and he's gonna tell you

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that the view out the back of the window from where this photograph

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was taken was not obstructed.

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And that's what they said.

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That's what they said in their opening statement.

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So I wanna give you a little backstory.

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What happens is in these cases is we will often we'll take the

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deposition of the expert in the case.

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And I remember we were driving to the expert's office to take his deposition

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and I said, The guy's like, you want to get dropped off in the front or the back.

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I say, you know what, pull in the back.

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So, so I don't know if it was intuition or what I said pull in the back.

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I just want to see this place.

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So I pull in the back and, and I see in the parking lot.

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Yeah.

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We pull in the back of the expert's office and I see this parked

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in the back and he is like, oh.

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Well, that looks a lot like the truck that we're talking about.

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And I noticed these two little holes here, right here on the truck.

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I don't know if you can see them.

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So we snapped this picture and then we went to the office of the expert and

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I emailed the picture to his secretary and said, Hey, would you mind printing

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this out for me for the deposition?

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And she's like, sure.

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So we printed out for the deposition and I asked the expert, What's this truck?

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He goes, oh, that's my truck.

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And I said, what do you use that for?

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Oh, we go to accident sites and we use it on the highways and stuff.

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And I said, does that have a backup alarm on it?

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And he's like, yes, it has a backup alarm.

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And I said, does it have a backup camera?

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And he says, yes, it has a backup camera.

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So, And then we ask him, well, why does it have a backup alarm

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and a backup camera on that truck?

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He goes, well, it's safer so you don't run over anyone.

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Like, you can't make this stuff up.

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So in the opening statement for the defense lawyer, in that case, as I

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said, he said that you're gonna hear from this expert and the expert's

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gonna tell you that there was, that there was no obstructive view.

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So we go through this trial, and the trial was like two weeks or so.

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It was like two and a half to three weeks.

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And they ended up not calling the expert a trial.

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So they told the jury, they said, you know, you're gonna hear from

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this expert, but they actually never called the expert a trial.

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So as we're discussing this to the jury, we kind of put up this

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like, where's Waldo kind of thing.

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Like where's the expert?

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You know, why didn't they ever call him?

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Because the judge wouldn't let us show that he had the same truck.

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So, We had to just like imply to the jury like, they, you were gonna

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hear this and the guy was gonna say this most ridiculous thing.

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So that's an example of like experts and how it all swings into it.

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And it's certainly a behind the scenes thing because the jury never knew

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that he ha he was gonna get up there and say the truck didn't need it.

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I think in his report he even said that it would have made the truck

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more unsafe to have a backup alarm and a backup camera, but, You know,

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it's not like an isolated thing.

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Like we see this so much in cases.

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We especially see it in medical cases where these doctors will just

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say the most crazy absurd thing.

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I mean, that's absurd.

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Like how can they say that?

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I'm like sitting here as like a non-lawyer.

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Like that's absurd that they're saying that, and it's like, seems

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like they're gonna try to say whatever to see who's gonna buy into it.

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Right.

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And that's what they're doing.

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They're gonna, they're trying to get some type of buy-in.

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So then in the same case, we can keep going.

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And so he was run over by the truck.

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Okay.

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And they then hired damage experts.

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Real quick, mark.

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I didn't know where you're going.

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Yep.

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Yeah, go ahead.

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Yeah, go ahead.

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I just don't wanna cut you off, but I just wanna, you know, we talked about

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marrying it to standards and, and things.

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I mean, the OSHA standard on that.

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Was it needs a backup alarm, if there's any like obstructions to the rear.

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And in their def, in their, I guess clarifying comment of

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what constitutes obstructions.

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They say like, you know, the body of the truck.

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And we circled that's what those circles were.

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We circled the tool boxes.

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Like the, the member, the toolboxes on the truck were an obstruction.

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The next thing they gave are any tools or things sticking up in the

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back that might cause, you know, difficulty seeing outta the rear.

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We circled those.

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It said any job site lighting that may also cause, you know,

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difficulty seeing out the back.

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We circled that and I think the defense guy, I'm trying to remember

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if you actually did this at the dapp or what, but I think his testimony

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was that unless the entire back of the truck was obstructed, it didn't need a

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backup camera and he took a sharpie and basically, Blacked out almost the entire

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thing, except for one little sliver.

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And then he was like, oh yeah, then it would need it.

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And it dimple.

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It doesn't end there.

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So then this is our guy after being run over by the truck in the hospital.

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I mean, it, it's crazy.

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And so then the insurance company looks like he had a

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ton of stitches on his head.

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Wow.

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Go back to that photo for the audience one more time.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, the injuries were bad.

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And, and it was largely, it was like, it was a lot of head injuries.

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These, all these photos and everything were shown before the jury and everything.

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It was all , public information, but, The insurance company and the defendant

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in the case actually hired experts that said he had no real permanent injuries

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and that he was faking his injuries.

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Like, like they hired experts like this to give these like bogus psychological

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tests to say that he was malingering and faking his head injury and that he had no

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real, I mean, and, and the sad thing is, So what this is about is you say, well,

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it must be easy to be a plaintiff's lawyer because they make such crazy arguments.

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It's not easy because.

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To fight those arguments in the litigation, not even the trial, it

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costs tens of thousands of dollars to research 'em, to take their depositions.

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To have your expert respond to their crazy statements, it costs like a ton of money.

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And beyond that, you have to fight them in court because they'll make motions and

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they'll try to weigh you down in paper.

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The insurance companies do this like in.

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Almost every case I've seen, they delay.

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They don't follow the rules.

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They say crazy things and you have to fight all this stuff

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and then you go to trial.

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And they will still say crazy things and they'll make all kinds of legal

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maneuvering and jockeying and motions to, for one simple thing, which is to

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get away from paying and it's just crazy.

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But I guess if it was easy, anyone, anyone could do it.

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You know?

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So that's a little vignette or a story of how experts fall into get, so then we have

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to get experts to say, no, that's crazy.

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And, and then we have to pay.

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Tens of thousands of dollars to have experts to come into court

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and say, oh no, he is injured.

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And no, it is a legitimate brain injury.

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And, and yes, he fractured all the ribs and he was basically, he crushed.

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And you have to go to a three week trial and you have to take up all

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the time of the judge and you have to take up all the time of the jurors and

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everything just because the insurance company doesn't want to pay the claim.

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So that's what it's about.

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So anyone that wants to be a lawyer or an expert, that's

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what you can look forward to.

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Yeah.

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For all the law students out there, you know, it is kind of an, an exciting

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world, but there's a lot involved and behind the scenes, you're getting to

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get a little bit of a glimpse at it.

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Mark, what are your thoughts on all this?

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Jerry said it.

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I, I remember obviously that case.

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Vividly.

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And just to add on to that, not only then do you have to fight all these forces and

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they make you go out and spend tens of thousands of dollars, but then when you're

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making your case, the defense attorneys sometimes will act in incredulous and

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shocked at the things you're saying.

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I remember, I think it was the orthopedic doctor, someone who's trial testimony.

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I, I took, we took his videotaped testimony and.

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The defense cross-examined him and said, well, isn't it true that the

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injured worker smoked cigarettes?

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And isn't it also true that he was, you know, in his fifties and the natural aging

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process results in degeneration to the.

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To the body and on redirect, I said, doctor, are the injured workers

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injuries from smoking cigarettes in the natural aging process?

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Or are they from being run over by the truck?

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And the defense attorney was like, objection, that, that's object.

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That's a mischaracter.

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And they were shocked.

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But what they're saying is that, oh, this guy's not hurt from getting backed over

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by a two ton vehicle, that his injuries are out from all these other things.

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I've had cases where, The client gets rear-ended, she's got neck pain,

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and they try and blame it on a deer tick bite she had when she was a

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kid, say, oh, one of the symptoms of Lyme's disease could be neck pain.

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It's, you know, it's, they'll do absolutely anything like Jerry said,

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to try and avoid paying a claim.

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See it's, it's funny because when I, like when I was in college, I was like

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really conservative and then I worked for Bob Dole in Washington as like

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an intern in college for a semester.

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And one of the reasons I went to law school is because I wanted

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to like end all these frivolous lawsuits, is the funniest thing.

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And then, and then I worked for a judge, judge damico in

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Monmouth County as a clerk.

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Kind of helping him decide cases and motions.

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And I thought my mission was to like throw cases outta court

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because they were all frivolous.

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And the more I worked with the judge and he showed the law and he

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showed the facts, I kind of learned.

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And then I did defense work after that working for insurance companies

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because I wanted to like do good in the world, which was to get

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rid of all the frivolous lawsuits.

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But I, as I realized and went through it, I'm like, I don't see

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any frivolous lawsuits, whatever.

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But that was me and that that wasn't that unusual.

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I mean, that kind of thinking, like we find that basically when you go to court

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and you have a jury, a pool of jurors, you know, they give you like a hundred jurors,

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and from that you gotta pick about.

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Seven or eight to decide your case in that pool of a hundred jurors.

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A third are gonna be like me the way I thought when I was in

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law school that all cases are frivolous and should be thrown out.

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A third are kind of like, don't really care either way, and a

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third are in your favor before they hear anything about the case.

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So, I think dimple, you asked why would the experts say that?

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They say it because a third of the jurors will believe it, like I

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probably would have back in college.

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So this is, this is the stuff that you have to, that you have to deal

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with, and they just want to give them something to hang their hat on to.

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Either decide for the defendant, you know, to decide for the defendant,

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even if they decide for the plaintiff to award a little bit of money.

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So that's how it works.

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That's fascinating.

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And these are the things like the general public doesn't know all of this happens,

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and this is exactly what happens behind the scenes that they don't, now they know.

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Thanks to, you know, Jersey Justice Podcast, but see, dimple trials

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are the funniest thing because as I said, at least for us, if we

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don't think the case is good, we're not gonna take the case to court.

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So like if this is, if this is your case, like this piece of paper is the whole

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case and everything about it, right?

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The juror is only gonna hear about about that much.

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You know, just, just this little part is what they're gonna hear.

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They're not gonna see the whole big picture.

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And we find the big picture is generally better for the plaintiff in our cases.

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And the defense is always trying to, no, don't tell the jury that.

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And Oh, you can't tell the jury that.

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And we need to, so the case, the jury actually sees, it's like

Speaker: 00:17:55

this nice package, sterile thing.

Speaker: 00:17:59

Because you don't want to award too much money, you know?

Speaker: 00:18:02

So we have to, and then they'll object.

Speaker: 00:18:04

I was at a trial one time and I think the objections were like 200

Speaker: 00:18:08

to about four, where the defense objected 200 times throughout the

Speaker: 00:18:13

course of like a two week trial.

Speaker: 00:18:15

And I objected like four times and we ended up winning that trial and yeah,

Speaker: 00:18:20

because they got a lot to hide, you know?

Speaker: 00:18:23

So.

Speaker: 00:18:24

That's the stuff that we have to deal with.

Speaker: 00:18:26

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker: 00:18:27

Anything else you guys wanna share today?

Speaker: 00:18:30

No, I mean, I, I think we're good.

Speaker: 00:18:32

We're talking about experts.

Speaker: 00:18:33

There's a lot of experts really useful and it's a big fight on

Speaker: 00:18:37

both sides, just how it's, yeah.

Speaker: 00:18:39

And I think that was, yeah, thanks Mark.

Speaker: 00:18:41

And I think that was a great example that Jerry, you know,

Speaker: 00:18:43

you shared for our audience.

Speaker: 00:18:45

So I guess we will see everyone on the next episode, unless you

Speaker: 00:18:49

guys have any last thoughts.

Speaker: 00:18:50

I'm good.

Speaker: 00:18:51

Thanks Dimple.

Speaker: 00:18:51

Good.

Speaker: 00:18:52

Thank you.

Speaker: 00:18:55

And there you have it, folks.

Speaker: 00:18:56

Another episode of Jersey Justice Podcast.

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